The Race Goes On And Why That's Great

It seems that one of Barack's messages is that Hillary can stay as long as she likes.  That's kind of his campaign message in a nutshell, by giving her his permission (as if that's possible) he shows his supporters that he's in charge, he's the man.  Her message is that she'll stay in until someone's a winner, with the majority of votes.  So, it may very well go on through the convention, during which Michigan and Florida may do a revote and get counted without needing special party permission. Why is this good for Barack, Hillary and the Democratic Party?  

First let's look at how they're running their campaigns. Barack has lots of money and lots of professional and regular volunteers, who are working their butts off to get him elected.  His message is that he's new, and it's time for the new. His message is that he can unite and force change by virtue of having a ready base of committed voters who'll back him up.  But he's won votes by being dismissive of Hillary, something I personally dislike. So, for me to give him my unreserved support he'll need to really win, not win by somehow (clearly impossible) forcing her out.  She's running on her experience, and on her solutions, and so whenever she speaks about her plans, it's seen as casting Barack as the lesser experienced one with solutions that won't work as well or at all.  He's saying she's a hack insider, and she's saying he's naive and hasn't the grit to get enough done.   He's says she can't be trusted, and she gives him 'fact checks' when he campaigns on something not strictly speaking true. It's Democracy and they're each trying to win.  

Hillary staying in works for him, if he turns out to be our nom, because

(1) He'll really have to win, with a majority of real votes, not just a majority of pledged delegates.

(2) The pugs won't be able to 'go after' his negatives until he's won the nom, because no one 's listening to them now, we're all caught up with what she says and what he says, and no one even remembers George Bush these days. Also, the longer it goes on, the more gaffs McCain will pile up, and we'll be gathering data on where he stands, and we know that will help us.

(3) While she's in the race he's being vetted soft ball style, and even if he acts like it's rough enough, it's nothing like what will come. He gets to practice more, and hone his retorts and he also gets to show that he can stick it out without looking bored, tired and irritable, something he needs to practice.  

(4) If he wins, it'll look fairer to people like me, who don't like the way he campaigns on raising Hillary's negatives, meaning by attacking her character.  Plus, the longer he stays in the more ideas of her's he grabs, and while we like to tease him about that, it's great, her ideas are worth grabbing and he does show great respect by copying her ideas and solutions.  And what's he to do, she started earlier, and answers first, he doesn't want to take only inferior ideas (like he did on health insurance) just to look different from her.

It's in the interest of all of us for both of them to fight it out through the nomination.  If she's to win and get his supporters, she'll also need a real win, with a majority of votes, not just a majority of super-delegates.  

But it could be more fun, if:

Barack would try to cheer us up, like she does. It needn't be a downer funeral so often.  And if he'd ask his supporters to come out for him without admitting it's really based on not wanting her. His endorsements are weak when his endorsers seem to base their enthusiasm on what they don't like about her. Richardson made himself look weird and so did Michael Moore. If they think she's at fault, they'd probably go for anyone who wasn't her, so they make Barack look merely available.  

It works best for Barack the longer he can run "against Hillary," and if Hillary does end up losing in the end, she'll have had a longer platform to present her ideas and solutions, which he may grab, and she'll have shown women around the world that she doesn't cave in to power plays and intimidation.  She's my hero and every day she gets up and goes to work, cheerful, smart, kindly, empathic, funny, and girly, and so she gives me hope. She's inspiring a lot of women with her fearlessness.

Thank you HIllary Clinton for being the bestest girl candidate in the whole wide world. More than just this generation will be gaining from your example, a great girl example of doing the best we can with our brief lives.  



Display:


I want to see if Obama (2.00 / 1)

can define himself as something other than "I'm not Hillary".  Because so far that's what he's done.  I am uncomfortable with his praising republicans and tearing down his opponent.


by 4justice on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:49:34 PM EST

Re: I want to see if Obama (none / 0)

Both candidates have offered kind words to Republicans, when it has suited their purposes.  Sad, but true.

I can appreciate what Obama wants to do, in terms of policy, with the idea that anyone who wants to be a part of the process will have a voice.  While I don't want GOP-lite bills from his potential administration, it approaches our problems from the perspective of getting all who would work in good faith to the table.  This has a few purposes.  First, it reduces the level of partisan hostility and, hopefully, reduces gridlock by minimizing the chances of a filibuster.  But, second, if there IS a filibuster, it's clear that it's Republicans who are the problem and not Democrats.  No one likes Congress.  But when things go wrong, we blame the President, and when things go right, he's been praised.  Obama's trying to change the rules of that game, to get public support behind movement toward new policies to the extent that Republicans cannot afford to block him.  

I'd also point to his general foreign policy approach, personally, as a primary reason for my own support of him.  It's not that he's "not Hillary," even though there's a major contrast in this area.


Donate to Obama, Today!
by freedom78 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly Anna (2.00 / 1)

His entire campaign and the reason for his success is that from the beginning he has been the Anti-Hillary.

The others didn't see the opportunity but Axelrod did so we got Old Style Politics (Hillary), Fights of the 90's (Hillary), Change we Can Believe In (you can't believe others).


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:55:30 PM EST

Re: Exactly Anna (2.00 / 1)

If being Anti-Hillary worked so well in the Democratic Primaries/Caucuses then it will work even better in the GE.  Good thing the Republicans will stick to the issues and won't be Anti-Hillary.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:00:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (2.00 / 1)

Perfect - well said girlfriend!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:58:32 PM EST

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

Thank you HIllary Clinton for being the bestest girl candidate in the whole wide world. More than just this generation will be gaining from your example, a great girl example of doing the best we can with our brief lives.

As a 50 year old woman who has taught women's studies classes who worked for years in feminist grassroots organizations, I find this an embarrassment.  Perhaps you could revise your diary to remove this.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:58:48 PM EST

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

perhaps you could include in your feminist message all of us?  We come in all shapes and sizes, all colors, all walks of life but we have a few things in common, whether or not all of us likes it.   I refuse to play by anyone's rules, I shuck of male oppression and want to obey you? I don't think so.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:07:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

Whatever. It was just a suggestion.

I've read the scholarly research on women and campaigns and I can tell you that this sort of rhetoric undermines women in politics.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:15:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

Oh please! Calling her "the bestest girl candidate" is undermining? How can you possibly say that?

Anna shane is right! You are an oppressor.  You go, anna shane! Wave that Hello Kitty lunchbox high!


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

P.S.  Yes, that is snarky. I actually was embarrassed for anna shane when I read that phrase.


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:31:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

how kind of you, are you embarrassed by Barack when he says 'love you back?'  I'm not, I think it's cute and silly.  But hey, I'm a girl, I don't have to have a bad day just because I don't always get my very own way.  I don't need to be ultra serious.  Just one piece of advice, just keep on being yourself?  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

Be myself? Ooh, bad idea, trust me.  Remember that ancient season of The Real World where that asshole Puck always referred to his behavior as fractions of his real self? ("What, I wasn't that bad tonight, I was only point six Puck!")  I do that.

But yeah, I love you back is highly cringe-inducing. I dare say that I hate it -- I'm a strong believer in not telling someone you love them unless you mean it.


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:05:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

My scholarly research shows it only "undermines" women in politics among Neanderthals.


I'm United Methodist. I already have a Messiah.
by KnowVox on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

yep - some of the criticisms of anna are from people that read this diary http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/7/14504 8/7823 and tried to dismiss the sexist media coverage.

good job as!


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Myself, i prefer Miss Donna (none / 0)

but y'all are welcome to your own opinions.

Lemme know when she runs for president, okay?


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:58:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Amen to this!!! (2.00 / 1)

"Thank you HIllary Clinton for being the bestest girl candidate in the whole wide world. More than just this generation will be gaining from your example, a great girl example of doing the best we can with our brief lives.  "

If you believe in something, you go after it!  Too many of us girls have been taught that it's all about being "well-liked" and the "good girl."  Hillary is showing us that no matter how hard it is, or how much they hurl insults, or try to make you feel bad, when you believe in something, you work hard for it.  Hill's breaking stereotypes because of her fearlessness, and it's never easy for those brave enough to break molds.  But she's got my heart, and she's obviously got the heart of millions of others in this country.


by izarradar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:00:24 PM EST

Re: Amen to this!!! (none / 0)

Are you really a girl? Because it's been a whole lot of years since I was.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am girl (2.00 / 1)

woman, crone, bitch, female.  I am all and more.


by izarradar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:02:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am girl (none / 0)

And how do you like the masculinist language of Clinton supporters about her "testicular fortitude" and the ability to give one of her 3 balls to Obama so he'll have one?  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:06:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am girl (none / 0)

I thought that was weird, there is feminine strength and fortitude and bravery that goes unnoticed when a woman is seeking power. Then she must have balls? Tell that to our moms, says I.   Lots of guys don't get it, but if I hadn't known before I'd know from you that lots of girls don't get it either. Sad.    


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:22:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, it's too bad (2.00 / 1)

that we need to resort to masculinist language to describe strength in a female.  But language is gendered just like our culture.


by izarradar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:27:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Amen to this!!! (none / 0)

Some of us girls knew that already and we don't reinforcement of that from Hillary. But, yeah, its good to know that she's using the office of the presidency to teach women to diligence, character and strength.

Puh-leeze, isn't that what girl scouts is for?

She shouldn't be using the future of this nation as her own personal ego trip.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:03:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Amen to this!!! (none / 0)

now she's on an ego trip too?  Gosh, can't that girl do anything right by you?  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Amen to this!!! (none / 0)

Nope


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:08:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Where does this level of hatred (none / 0)

come from?  I don't get it.  Unless you personally know the woman, and you've been f**ked over by her, how can you hate her so much?  Do you realize how irrational your hatred is of this person?  You are basing everything on the media construct of someone you don't even know.  That's pathological.  It actually says more about YOU than it does about Hillary Clinton.


by izarradar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where does this level of hatred (none / 0)

When you have a son who has done a tour of duty for 15 months in Iraq, then you can talk. I am only suggesting that you don't. Because if you did there is no way you could live with the Bosnia Fairytail that she told. Do you know what it's like in Bosnia, it's 100 and 20 fucking degrees. When a soldier walks down the street and thinks every Iraqi citizen who looks at him wants him dead, only to have some IDIOT running for President (his boss) minimalize that for her own gain, reeks of selfishness. I don't know her personally, I don't want to know her personally. Do you get it now????? She is an embarrassment to he Military!!!!!


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I respect your son's service (2.00 / 1)

and I thank him for his time and sacrifice for our country.  I do not agree with your rage against Senator Clinton.  I think there are other people you might want to direct some of that anger against.  But that is a separate issue---Your son is to be thanked for his noble service, and you are to be thanked as his parent.


by izarradar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:48:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I respect your son's service (none / 0)

I truely appreciate your reply. I will also pass your respects onto my son. I also appreciate, no matter which candidate you are backing, your participation in this site. Just remember, without us there is no mydd.com. Thanks again.


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

It is also thoroughly bizarre for you to claim that Barack Obama's rhetoric is focused on Hillary Clinton and that he is "downer." His supporters are genuinely attracted by his positives.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:00:52 PM EST

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

we rarely hear them, most pro Obama posts are anti-Hilary ones. That's his campaign and it's been paying off for him.  He's the great male hope.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

I think the bestest girl candidate would have won the nomination.  America is ready for a woman President.  They just dont' want it to be Hillary Clinton.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:04:37 PM EST

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

she hasn't lost yet. A woman getting this far is a win all right, and if she gets the popular vote she'll be our candidate.   The point is that this is good for Barack too, if he wants a mandate he won't be able to dismiss all of her supporters, he'll have to actually win.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

Run some numbers and tell me how she gets the popular vote (as if that matters). I've done it and I've looked at Chuck Todd's analyses and it can't be done.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Point out the woman (2.00 / 1)

who could have come this far.  There is not one.


by izarradar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:28:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Point out the woman (none / 0)

Jeanne Shaheen, Janet Napolitano, Kathleen Sebelius, Heck even Condeleeza Rice for the Repubs.     Give any of those women the advantages Clinton had before this race began and they would have done just as well or better than Clinton.  

Also, we have a female Speaker of the House.  Women are making it to the top of the political food chain.  If Clinton didn't make some fundamental errors she would be the nominee right now.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:52:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda (2.00 / 1)

Not one of those women is even close, and you know it.  All of them are where they are because of connections to high power men.  Clinton's not the only female who has benefited from getting some help from a high powered male.  That's the way our society has run.  Last time I looked there's only an "old boys club" and not an "old girls club."  We can only hope that things change---Clinton's campaign is the beginning of that change.


by izarradar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:01:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda (none / 0)

High power men like an ex-President?  Did you even think before you wrote that sentence?  

What is Nancy Pelosi chopped liver?  As much as I don't like Condeleeza Rice she has broken a few glass ceilings in her time.  I don't see what Clinton did to deserve such high praise.  She lost a Presidential nomination race that she should have won.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:19:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton has worked her ass off (none / 0)

that's what.  If you don't like the woman. just say it.  It obviously colors your understanding of what she has accomplished.


by izarradar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:52:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton has worked her ass off (none / 0)

Who is the high-powered man who put Janet Napolitano where she is today?


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ummm (none / 0)

"In 1993, Napolitano was appointed by President Bill Clinton as United States attorney for the District of Arizona."

Bill's been responsible for a lot of women getting high powered positions.  


by izarradar on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:10:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ummm (none / 0)

Wow! Getting appointed by a male president is riding the coattails of a powerful man, but sleeping with that same president for 30 years is not?


I just flipped off President George, I'm going to Disneyland
by alvernon on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:51:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Point out the woman (none / 0)

You mean if they had her smarts and her experience and her personality and her group of enthusiastic supporters?  She has quite a lot of advantages. The best one is that she had the guts to throw her hat into the ring and to keep on campaigning.  The point of this diary is that running against her as long as possible will help Barack, if he's the nom, get her supporters to be enthusiastic for him too.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:01:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Point out the woman (none / 0)

No, I mean if they had the money and the institutional advantages that Clinton enjoyed then they would have been forces to reckon with in the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination.  Clinton didn't lose this race b/c she is a woman she lost it b/c she made some mistakes and Obama's campaign capitalized on those mistakes.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Point out the woman (none / 0)

how's she get those advantages?   Why do you think he got early money and a lot of backers and that so-called institutional support?  (hint: her own talents and abilities, that she demonstrated so well she was encouraged to run).


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:20:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Point out the woman (none / 0)

Her husband mostly.  Barbara Boxer is talented, intelligent and an excellent politician as well*.  Do you think those things translate into 100 superdelegates before a vote is cast or a war chest of tens of millions of dollars years before the primaries even start?  I don't.  Being first lady for eight years has more to do with Hillary's advantages than her talents and abilities.  

* She also didn't vote for the AUMF against Iraq.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:28:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Point out the woman (none / 0)

well, you bought it then. That's what Barack says too, but at least he knows better, i think.  How depressing, all this long contest, all her great speeches and her debates and her press releases, and her legislation and it's all cause she was married. that's what all women face, there is always some outside reason if we're successful, it's never us, always some guy.  How depressing.  We may have come a long way but they're a lot longer way to go.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:58:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Point out the woman (none / 0)

I was going to disagree with you, but actually we did see a big swing of Clinton supporters come out Tuesday night and Wednesday morning and say "She fought hard, it was great, I wish she had won, but now there is no way she can, so it is over. On to campaign for Obama!" I suspect the same thing would have happened if she had dropped out after Super Tuesday, but as long as Clinton's supporters come back strong for Obama in the end, then the long primary season has definitely been a good thing.

Just a minor point, but both Clinton and Obama developed their health plans because Edwards put a health plan on the table. Before he did that, both Obama and Clinton were talking in generalities about how they'd get to the process of developing a health plan after they were elected. Clinton even talked about how it would be the cap stone of her second term.


by letterc on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Point out the woman (none / 0)

yes, she always credits John too.  She still has a path, so she's not out yet.  And the longer she shows she can't be knocked out, the better chance she'll have. I know it's a long shot but I see only an upside to it going on, for Barack and the party. His message is for her to go away, but that won't win him support from those who think he isn't in charge of her.  There is a way, and it's proven by this, if Barack really thought he has it sewn up he'd quite smearing her and he'd then have a better chance of winning her supporters over t work for him in the GE. Some of us take his smears personally, like me.  Since he's the same old, one has to see that he's not so certain.  If she gets the popular vote, and if she polls better against McCain, he won't get it fairly, or at all.    


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:25:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The race only goes on in the Huckabee sense (none / 0)

At this point we have our nominee, and Hillary can stay in as long as she is positive, otherwise the supers are going to hand her her hat. She has a few more weeks, max, to find a graceful exit ramp.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:24:26 PM EST

Re: The race only goes on in the Huckabee sense (none / 0)

the supers don't get to hold a deciding vote until the convention, and the only way it will end before that time is if one of them drops out. Fasten your seatbelt, it's going to go on.  If he wants it he'll have to keep fighting for it, and this will make him in the end, if he's our nom, a stronger candidate.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:32:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The second he has the magic number (none / 0)

including pledged and supers who've committed, it's over. Your argument is like saying John McCain isn't the Republican nominee.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What race? (none / 0)

Look, this is not a race anymore. Participating in contests? Yes. She is the former first lady and the party leaders are obviously going to be gentle about urging her to quit the nonsense.

I think that they are hoping she will wake up, smell the latte and do the right thing for her party.

I hope that she does not abuse that courtesy.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:27:25 PM EST

Re: What race? (none / 0)

being nice to the little lady?  No one can force her out, she can go to the convention and for our party's sake and for the sake of her opponent I hope and trust that she will.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:29:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

You really think that a floor fight at the convention, in which half the party activists invest themselves even further in trying to stop Obama from being the nominee, and leave feeling broken and defeated, will result in Clinton supporters feeling like Obama is their candidate for president?

I don't see that.


by letterc on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

you've got it mixed up. I don't want to stop Obama, I want her to win, I'd want her to win if she were running against Edwards, and I wouldn't be voting for her to stop Edwards.  If Obama wins I want it to be a real win, with a majority of the popular vote including Florida and Michigan. If she catches up to him in the pop vote even without Florida and Michigan she'll be ahead in the minds of most.  Are you really thinking her supporters are motivated by the desire to stop Barack?  You're quite wrong, we really like her and really want her to be our president.  Of course it's true that he's been running to stop her, but he was a new guy and he had to position himself against someone to get noticed. I won't hold that against him long term if he wins it fair and square and if he starts to behave like the uniter he's claimed to be.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:30:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

I think that the divide between "I want my side to win" and "I want your side to lose" gets smaller and smaller the harder fought the battle. If it gets all the way to a procedural battle at the convention, it isn't about how great Clinton is, it is about "what rule interpretation can we push through that we can then use to force this vote that will splinter Obama's backers?" When that fails, it will leave a lot of people with the feeling that they failed and that the nomination convention didn't give them the nominee they came there wanting. I doubt that all of them will be able to turn on a dime and say, "Fantastic, now let me pour my heart out for the man who used sleazy parliamentary tricks to steal the nomination."

You yourself in this very post are using the modified version of a fair win (some popular vote count) as the criteria. Obama can easily win the nomination while losing according to your criteria. It is even conceivable that he will win the nomination with the actual seated delegate count, but would have lost if Michigan had been seated in full. That is still a win, and he will still be the nominee. If he wins like that, are you saying you won't consider him the legitimate nominee, but you'll fight like mad for him in the GE anyway?

When we get to the floor fight (god forbid we do), both sides will be pulling crazy shit to win. Clinton's crazy shit will look totally justified to many Clinton supporters and Obama's crazy shit will look like sleazy hateful cheating. That isn't going to help convince them that Obama is the legitimate winner and that they should fight for him in the GE.

Clinton should fight it out to the start of June, the SDs should declare their intentions, and then whichever of them loses should bow out, congratulate the other and go on a unity tour over the summer to make peace. If Clinton says that Obama is the legitimate victor, will that make it easier for you to say that he is? I think it will for many Clinton supporters.


by letterc on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

You're hope has gone unfounded. Because abuse it, she will!! And has. Any person of sound mind would've courteously dropped out for the sake of the party. She is a selfish political "HACK". This is turning into something like a local race for Sherriff or Town Board. That's how petty it has become. Her campaign is broke and
 D----E----A----D
dead.
John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

she's not courteous? but she's clean and well mannered? Wow, where did you come from?  He's been trying to bully her out since he lost Texas, I heard a rumor that he'll anoint himself and not wait for the convention as soon as he loses his next two states. Could it be true?  If she wins will that mean both of them will be running against McCain?  Wild times.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:40:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

She's clean, but she needs to get with a fashion designer for the stout and frumpy. Her well manners drip wit sarcasm. My only hope is that she hops on the next rail to Hope AK., never to be seen nor heard from again.


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

either you don't know when you're sexist or you don't care.  Maybe Barack would laugh, but if he wants us to come back to him, he'd be stupid to.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:52:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

I'm pretty sure he doesn't care.


by letterc on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:23:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What race? (none / 0)

This is a repulsive and idiotic comment.


by letterc on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

25 million dollars in debt.

That is a BOATLOAD of cash my friend.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:39:22 PM EST

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

it certainly is.  He has more  money, I said that in the diary.  But this is the USA, it's still about how many votes, not yet about how much cash.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:41:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

Yeah, and in Amereican politics for a candidate to be viable, they need boatloads of cash.
Although her lack of viability has to do with alot more than lack of funds.
"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

Well tell us what she lacks. Now that you asked, A lack of scruples, a lack of morals, a lack of common sense, a blatant lack of respect for the intelligence of her fellow man. Oh and that's right a "Lack of Voter Support". Had to reach back into the back of my head for that one, it's starting to get a little cloudy with all the Pro- Hillary Propaganda.


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

that's his message, but what else does he have?  Could he beat up on anther guy like that?  To her face he's quite nice, but once she turns her back?  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:08:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

That isn't Obama's message, that is the message from a misogynist troll.


by letterc on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:26:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

I agree, but then I do think he winks and nods at that stuff. So many are motivated by their hatred of her, and he does play to that. I won't hold it against him if he doesn't declare mission accomplished before the convention.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (2.00 / 1)

On another front, it is good for the states who haven't yet had their primaries because the Clinton/Obama contest increases turnout.  Increased turnout is critically important to some other contests.  For Oregon, it is most definitely a good thing for Clinton to stay in the race, regardless of the outcome for her.

That's along with my purely personal opinion that she's the best candidate, and that with so, so few primaries remaining, and only a few weeks left, at this point it would seem kind of odd for a candidate to drop out who has just a hair less than half the voters behind her.

Finish it out. It just makes the most sense at this point, and will do a lot to help her supporters (who are legion) to make the shift to Obama -- it means a lot for the rest of the party to respect the strength of Clinton's campaign.


by Susan in Oregon on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:40:57 PM EST

Re: The Race Goes On And Why That's Great (none / 0)

yes, and the local ground games. We'll need ground games to get photo id's out in time for the GE.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:43:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

At least stay in till Oregon. (2.00 / 1)

yeah, I hear that.

I am an Obama supporter, but man, we've let so many people have a voice, why not let the last few too?


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:03:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On (none / 0)

Messala: Triumph complete, Judah. The race won. The enemy destroyed.
Ben-Hur: I see no enemy.
Messala: What do you think you see? The smashed body of a wretched animal! Is enough of a man still left here for you to hate? Let me help you...You think they're dead. Your mother and sister. Dead. And the race over. It isn't over, Judah. They're not dead.
Ben-Hur: Where are they? Where are they? (shouting) Where are they?
Messala: (vengefully) Look for them in the Valley of the Lepers, if you can recognize them. (grabbing Judah's clothing) It goes on. It goes on, Judah. The race, the race is not over.

He dies gloating at Judah's horror, exacting some revenge for his humiliating defeat by revealing that Ben-Hur's mother and sister have been condemned to live among lepers.

(Yep. That sounds like Hillary's "race.")


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:11:34 PM EST

Re: The Race Goes On (none / 0)

that's Barack's message too, but he's making a mistake. He'd be a far better nom and more prepared to take on McCain if he sticks it out and tries to use the opportunity to win voters to him rather than turn off more voters to her, and if he wins fair and square he'll get us to back him, but if it's his nuclear option and he declares victory like George Bush and calls for a civil war if he's 'denied his destiny,' he won't win us, we'd be more likely to vomit.  We also want the nom to win the GE do we not? Donna Brazille says the Democratic Party doesn't need the working class vote, but she's really wrong. She makes Obama look brilliant.  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:18:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On (none / 0)

Please cite what Obama has done to, "turn off more voters to her." Neither he nor his campaign have mentioned Hillary since congratulating her on Tuesday night. And he hasn't declared victory nor asked Hillary to quit.

It's Hillary and her crew who are still playing the "turnoff" game against Obama. They've been in the media the past two days trying to promote the same old concocted negatives about him.  But it won't work any more now than it has to date. You'd think they'd have learned by now it's only her negatives which get driven up by it, but it's too late to matter anyway.

I'm afraid the last half of your comment is without any merit worthy of response.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:41:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On (none / 0)

then way did you bother?   You mean since Tuesday and what is today, it's Thursday? what has he done in the last two days???? I write a positive diary about how this helps him and you wonder what negative he's said for two days?  Strange?  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On (none / 0)

I suggest you go back and read your initial comment. It was a thinly veiled attack on Obama.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:09:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On (none / 0)

no it wasn't.  What's your problem?  


by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:59:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Race Goes On (none / 0)

?


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:28:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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