Gas Tax Holiday

Senator Obama calls Hillary a panderer for proposing a gas tax holiday and says she's no different from McCain. I think that's old politics and here's why.

In Illinois Barack proposed the same thing, a gas tax holiday. At that time he had his 'bottom up' philosophy and he could see that the people needed to get some of the breaks in order to realize how many we don't get, and how many big business does get. Now he thinks it's a bad idea, but he's not only being disingenuous, he's also misrepresenting Hilary's position. Hillary does not claim, as says Barack, that this is a comprehensive solution to the energy crisis, she says it's a good idea. She'll take the pandering tax breaks from big oil and give pandering tax breaks to drivers. Sounds like fun to me, and about time. It won't solve anything long term, but it will get big oil used to the idea that their tax breaks are endangered and the days of gouging drivers are equally endangered.

It's not McCain's plan. McCain plans to cut the tax but not replace it with taking the break from big oil. Under his plan big oil gets to keep their obscene profits and the tax holiday comes from more borrowing.

But, that's not the only place she'll pander. She'll take away panders to the polluters and pander to green energy. She'll take away the panders to ultra-rich and pander to struggling Americans.

Barack says she's pandering, and I say pander on, about time someone cared enough to pander to me. It's a first step, not one the economists think will do any good, but one that can very well lead us to ask for more. More fairness more justice, and more personal freedom.



Display:


Re: Gas Tax Holiday (2.00 / 2)

This is a southern diary.   Please recommend it.  


by anna shane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:50:39 PM EST

the whole truth (2.00 / 4)

you left out the part where after a short time they realized in Illinois that the oil companies WERE NOT passing on the reduction to consumers, and thus repealed the law, with Obama's support.

that is why this is a TERRIBLE IDEA.

the oil companies will keep the money, they won't give a penny back to the consumers. so this amounts to yet another GIANT dividend paid by the govenment to the oil companies. do you really want to give the oil companies more $ when they're already making record profits?
that sounds crazy!!!


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:52:38 PM EST

Re: the whole truth (none / 0)

then what did he do?  Introduce legislation that prevents gouging? That would have been a great bottom up strategy to educate voters that we're not the ones big business cares about.  He missed his opportunity?  Where was the outrage?  


by anna shane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the whole truth (2.00 / 2)

Here's an idea.  Maybe, just maybe, our energy problems can't be fixed by one bill or one proposal.  And maybe, instead of pandering and playing to people's ignorance on these issues, our presidential candidates should be talking about the long-term solutions and the sacrifices that will have to be made.

Obama can't solve our energy problems by himself, but at least he's not pretending that he can.


by KevinT on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the whole truth (none / 0)

Here is a 15-page Energy Plan.

There are five more where that came from.

Of course Hillary does not think that an $8 billion economic stimulus will solve all of our problems.

It would be like accusing Hillary of thinking her Healthcare plan will solve global warming.  Huh?  Makes no sense.  One of the things we like about Hillary is that she has very comprehensive, substantive plans.

So when you pretend that this gas tax moratorium, which is really economic stimulus II but packaged differently, is the only idea she has, that's dishonest.  I don't blame you though.  You get the "old politics" from your candidate.


by bobbank on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the whole truth (2.00 / 3)

Did you not get the memo that once you have a position on an issue, you're not allowed to change that position, even in the face of overwhelming evidence?  

And how dare you say that the oil companies will keep the profits.  Hillary Clinton is such an amazing leader that she will pass her windfall profits bill, even without any support.  It'll be just like magic, and our energy problems will be solved.

Evidently you just don't understand the struggles of the average American.


by KevinT on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the whole truth (2.00 / 1)

The skies will open...and even though Congress is opposed...they will just pass it.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:34:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He learned from his mistake... (none / 0)


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:52:51 PM EST

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0)

Whatever.  Politicians are accountable to the voters.  The voters approve of this and so do i. It is sad that BO supporters dont agree because McCain will go after BO on this in the fall.

And if continues to feed the narrative that BO is not in touch with everyday middle american's and he has only himself to blame.

Think about the ads that McCain is going to run.

david


by giusd on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:54:49 PM EST

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0)

Who says the voters approve of this?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

why do you support more $ for Big Oil? (2.00 / 1)

the $$ IS NOT required to be given back to consumers, therefore it's a payout to Big Oil.
are you fucking crazy?
the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:02:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: why do you support more $ for Big Oil? (none / 0)

Did you just say fucking crazy???  Wow that is a strong argument.  The last time i heard that it was coming from a 12 year old.

david


by giusd on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (2.00 / 1)

My goodness, it seems that many of you spend all your time  analyzing every political stance and wondering what kind of attack advertisements the Republicans might run against it.

Grow a backbone.  

We need to behave like progressive Democrats and honestly put our positions forward.  We need to show some leadership and not constantly keep one eye on the polls.

"everyday middle american's" aren't necessarily fooled by pandering.  Obama has the ability to speak to us like adults and fellow citizens and he should use this skill to explain why this tax holiday is a stupid idea.

Or do you think "everyday middle american's" are too dense to understand this?


by emptythreatsfarm on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes. (2.00 / 1)

everyday middle americans who voted for Ronald Reagan, especially working class people who vote against there own economic interests, time after time again, are too dense to understand this


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:12:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes. (none / 0)

Look what's been happening in some of these early congressional races.  If things continue on this trajectory, we're going to see improved margins in both the House and the Senate.

My hope is that a few of my kin are waking up and smelling the coffee.

People like me can "get it".  Sometimes we just need to have people speak slowly and repeat themselves a few times first.


by emptythreatsfarm on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (2.00 / 1)

I agree middle americans know pandering when the see it.  Like when BO goes to hang with his rich kid buds in SF and when he thinks it is ok and no one is listening he insults middle american's by calling them bitter and mocks there like of god and guns.  Really tell me who Mr. Panda Bear is.

Talk about pandering.  Insulting ameracans while chating the his elisist, snobish, SF rich cat friends.  No i agree who is pandering.

david


by giusd on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0)

you say Obama supporters drink the kool aid ??

I Gaurantee you are EXACTLY the type of Moron Hillary is appealing to the uneducated !!!
You only think it works because Hillary said it
thats the Only reason because you are a Mindless lemming and Hillary is counting on your Uneducated ass !!!!
I gaurantee you did no research at all on your position just watch the news for crying out loud !!!

Heck even Hillary's Supporters say its a bad Idea (including superdelagates)
thats why they are leaving her flock by the day

they are smart Hillary supporters on MYDD you can even ask them look at their comments  

but your uneducated type will not do any research
you will just give Hillary your BLIND SUPPORT

god I hope the people in Indiana and North Carolina are not dumb like you if so

"OBAMA IS TOAST"


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:20:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Will Vote for McCain's Bill (none / 0)

Hillary's bill will get to the floor for a vote.

But so will McCain's bill.

Will Hillary vote for the McCain bill, thereby giving him a victory to run on, or will she vote against the bill, allowing the repugs to unfairly say, "she was for it, before she was against it."

What should Hillary do?

Vote for McCain's bill or vote against it?


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will Vote for McCain's Bill (2.00 / 1)

she's vote against it.  McCain doesn't pay for his tax relief with savings somewhere else.  That's a no brainer, McCain is being irresponsible, and she's doing it the responsible and the fun way.  


by anna shane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:13:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good Policy, Bad Politics (2.00 / 1)

It's good policy to vote against it.  

But it's bad politics.

Hillary and McCain have been hyping the importance of working class, Reagan Democrats.

They've been hyping how beneficial the tax cut will be to consumer's pocketbooks.

low information voters don't care that the tax break would be unfunded.  Reagan and Dubya proved low information voters don't care about unfunded tax breaks.

Then the thugs will lie (which is what the do best), that Hillary was for it before she was against.  

This will sour her appeal with low information, Reagan Democrats - that she voted against the tax break.  the won't go into the weeds and look for the details - they're struggling.

Annie Oakley just shot herself in the foot.

You'd think she'd have better aim, her being a duck hunter and all.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (2.00 / 1)

Well said, Anna, and definitely recommended.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:55:55 PM EST

more $$ for big oil (2.00 / 2)

TexasDarlin, why do you support this handout to Big Oil? they ARE NOT required to pass it along, and you can bet they won't. this is just more $ from your taxes straight to Big Oil. that's freaking crazy!


the time to rise has been engaged.
by catchaz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:03:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: more $$ for big oil (2.00 / 1)

how it this a handout to big oil?  She'll take it from them in the first place, no?  Even if what Obama predicts and claims is the reason to do nothing turns out to be true, that would be the biggest opportunity to prove they're gauging.  


by anna shane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: more $$ for big oil (2.00 / 4)

1.  The Windfall Tax will NOT pass the congress under this administration.  So it will NOT pass this summer.

2.  If the Gas Tax Holiday passes without the Windfall Tax it comes out of our infrastructure budget ($9 billion dollars) thus slowing down work on our highways and bridges, and in turn taking away jobs from people who work in this ndustry.

3. If the Gas Tax Holiday passes nothing stops big oil from rasing their price, claiming increase in demand, therefore putting the money that would go into our infrastructure budget right into the pockets of big oil.

It's just pandering and politics that prey on the undereducated voter.


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:46:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: more $$ for big oil (none / 0)

TexasDarlin does not read Diaries

her job is to just patrol MYDD and rec anti Obama and Anti Cliton diaries

just to keep the morale up around here


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:22:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Which plan is more likely to pass (none / 0)

McCain's or Hill's???

I can see Mary Landrieu and Inhofe (oil and gas tools) pulling a filibuster, cuz it's an election year.

And even if it does pass, the repugs will stay Bush's veto.

The bill may be good politics, but if it can't pass, then it's old politics.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:56:43 PM EST

Re: Which plan is more likely to pass (none / 0)

I'll bet you that Clinton doesn't even begin to believe that it will pass, and will go suddenly silent about it as soon as the primary is over.  The whole point is to trick the rubes.

But this is a rube diary, after all...


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:09:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Which plan is more likely to pass (2.00 / 1)

everyone knows what she's thinking?  Even you?  And I'm the rube?  


by anna shane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:15:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ronald Reagan voters are rubes (none / 0)

unapologetic voters of Ronald Reagan are rubes.

I hope, you're not a Reagan Democrat, Anna.

Reagan was bad for America.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:18:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Summer season starts soon (none / 0)

the primaries won't be over until june 3rd.  The supers won't all go on record until jun 15th.  And worst case scenario, the nomination goes all the way to denver, and the end of august.

the summer season is usually june, july, and August.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:16:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Summer season starts soon (none / 0)

Yeah, and it will be mildly amusing to watch her squirm on this if she doesn't admit defeat by summer...


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This would her her in the GE (none / 0)

this would hurt her in the GE and help McCain.

She just screwed us over.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:35:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary is treating voters like total idiots (2.00 / 2)

She should be too good for this kind of empty, shallow pandering. Why does she have to talk down to people like this? It's beneath our intelligence.

The people of Indiana should be insulted, and if they're not, they deserve this kind of cynical leadership.


by Bee on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:58:07 PM EST

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0)

Hasn't this issue already been diaried enough already?

And haven't you seen how she has pissed off democratic members of congress by saying "your either with me or against me"? And don't you realize how truly stupid your candidate is to threaten the very people who will control who the dem. nominee will be?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Fri May 02, 2008 at 07:59:04 PM EST

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (2.00 / 1)

Once such example comes from Mark Udall, uncommitted Super Delegate, and a candidate for a Senate Seat in Colorado.

"Senator Clinton claimed yesterday that I either stand with her on this proposal or stand with the oil companies. To that I say: I stand with the families of Colorado, who aren't looking for bumper sticker fixes that don't fix anything, but for meaningful change that brings real relief and a new direction for our energy policy. We can't afford more Washington-style pandering while families keep getting squeezed."

http://www.markudall.com/content/page/ud all_answers_clinton_gas_tax_challenge_st ands_with_coloradans_for_meaningf


First and Foremost: A Democrat in the White House
by mascho on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:00:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary destroying the Democratic Party (2.00 / 3)

from within.  

She's turned her campaign into a one man show.  Her campaign is no longer about running for president and helping America, it's about her gaining power and control and she'll do whatever it takes to achieve that.

What the hell did she mean by "your either with me or against me".  Is she now running against the whole Democratic party?  Do the issues boil down to picking sides?   Sounds like a Bush sound bite.

Instead of focusing on the real problem of pollution and our addiction to oil, she is now encouraging both.  Instead of working with the Democratic party to solve our energy problems, she's mirroring McCain's gas tax proposal.  Instead of forming a coalition, she tries to divide the party.  

So the question should be directed to Hillary, which side are you on?


by hienmango on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:43:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

IT'S A TRAP (2.00 / 1)

btw., Hillary is about to trap herself.

Hillary's bill will be vetoed, then McCain bill will come to the floor, forcing Hillary to take a vote.

Will she vote for the so-called holiday for working class, giving McCain a victory, or will she vote against it, allowing the repugs to unfairly peg her as a "flip flopper?"

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

You really messed this one up, Hillary.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:00:55 PM EST

Re: IT'S A TRAP (2.00 / 1)

she'll vote against it, it isn't  paid for. That's in the diary, whatever makes you think she'd vote for McCain's bill?  


by anna shane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:18:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Flip Flopper (2.00 / 2)

The repugs will tar and feather her as a "flip flopper"

they'll say, she was for the tax break, before she was for the tax break.  Yes, the devil is truly in the details, but for low information votes, who are financially struggling, the details be damned.

The repugs are really good at mudding the waters. That's how they defeated healthcare in 1994.  Think, how many Americans thought Saddam was behind 9-11.  it's because the can muddy the waters, even when they're in the minority.

Hill has painted herself into a corner.

Just because she's smart, doesn't mean she's perfect.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:29:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flip Flopper (2.00 / 1)

And they'll also paint Obama as a flip-flopper, and perhaps more so:

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2008/05/m r-and-mrs-corruption-this-is-big-one.htm \

I know, that's not necessarily something that fits into your argument, but what the hell, let the truth come out on each side, and see how many contortions we can come up with to prove who's right.


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

but Hillary is the nominee (none / 0)

Hillary painted herself into a corner, if she's the nominee


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:21:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Flip Flopper (1.00 / 1)

hey the link is dead dumbass

just like this gas tax Idea  moron get a clue


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:26:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0)

Okay, Clinton isn't pandering. Given how gas prices started climbing sharply after the Iraq war, may be guilt is driving her to try and help alleviate the financial suffering brought forth by gas prices. You know, her having voted for the war and all.


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:01:34 PM EST

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0)

change the subject? there are many diaries about her vote.  Had Bush not lied we'd have had inspectors there, not troops. But then we wouldn't have those no-bid contracts or private armies either.  


by anna shane on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:17:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (2.00 / 2)

23 senators voted against. So, some saw through his lie. She simply didn't do the right thing. now go back to talking about your wonderful gas tax holiday.


_____________
PUMA: Perverse Undemocratic McCain Adherents
by lizardbox on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:24:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0)

Anna Shane

You mention Bush had Lied right?
what makes you think Hillary is not Lying the same way Bush lied to take us to war ?
you seem like a smart person so why don't
you get a analysis from a non biased source not affliated with any candidate and weigh that with what Hillary is proposing. If not what you are doing is just giving Blind support to her without looking at the facts the same way she gave blind support TO Bush and the war with out looking at the National Intelligence Estimate given to her.
whats the harm in researching ? you will be kicking yourself if you don't like she is Kicking herself for voting for the war  please look into it  


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:35:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (none / 0)

why isn't everyone lying? If Bush was lying, why not Hillary? that's a strange thing to say.  


by anna shane on Sat May 03, 2008 at 11:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

One link of hundreds (2.00 / 1)

to detail why this is such a misleading plan:

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/i dUSN3038243520080430

Nearly all experts from all sides agree that the proposal won't help anyone except the oil companies.

The question you need to be asking is why your beloved candidate is using this insincere and unhelpful tact.


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:27:25 PM EST

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (2.00 / 3)

You ever think that Obama learned from his mistake, and that's one of the reasons why he's against Hillary's proposal now?


by reggie23 on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:29:43 PM EST

Ignorant (2.00 / 4)

You didn't consider the 300,000 road construction job loss.

You didn't consider that the oil companies will pass any taxes on them to the consumer.

You didn't consider the higher demand on gas, which in turn creates higher gas price, and also creates more pollution, which in turn heightens global warming.  

You will save about $30 total for a foolish tax holiday but will cost so much more in terms of pollution and job loss.  The only "person" who will benefit from this is the big Oil man, who will laugh all the way to the bank.

With this proposal, Clinton is not an environmentalist by a long shot.  Please think before you post.

Obama did suggest this gas tax "holiday" before and he saw it didn't work.  Clinton (and her supporters) should be smarter and learn from history.


by hienmango on Fri May 02, 2008 at 08:30:09 PM EST

Re: Ignorant (none / 0)

this seems to be the obama strategy- intentionally conflate mccain's and hillary's plan, and falsely claim that hillary's plan will reduce finding for highway construction and therefore cost jobs. if fact, hillary's plan is to replace consumer payments through gas taxes into the highway trust fund with windfall profits tax from the oil companies, so all that money for highway construction and jobs will still be there.

this must be a talking point/bamboozlement attempt coming straight from the obama campaign, because so many campaign operatives who have previously shown that they know better are saying it. lying to the voters... oh well, desperate times call for desperate measures.


by campskunk on Fri May 02, 2008 at 10:28:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (1.00 / 0)

Here's some more information about Obama's former stances on the gas tax.  Very interesting:

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2008/05/m r-and-mrs-corruption-this-is-big-one.htm \


It does not take many words to tell the truth Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
by Gabriele Droz on Fri May 02, 2008 at 09:57:42 PM EST

Re: Gas Tax Holiday (1.00 / 1)

would you stop spamming that link you fucking moron it does not work jack ass  


PUMA: Particularly Undeveloped Mental Ability
by wellinformed on Sat May 03, 2008 at 12:37:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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