Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign?

I've been unsurprised to find that Senator Obama and his supporters are 'giving' Hillary their 'permission' to stay in the race, as long as she doesn't 'further diminish' Barack.  Some months back I wrote a diary about his strategy for winning the nomination that nullifies his reason to run in the first place - that he's a brand new kind of guy who represents change that is unifying and not divisive, but his strategy it to drive up Hillary's negatives through sarcastic and sexist character assassination. He's said he plays "Chicago Smack Down," and so he does.  Much of the media is now, and without apparent irony, blaming Barack's problems with the electorate on Hillary. I think that he's positioned himself to blame a GE loss on her, should he win the nomination and go down in flames.  

Outside the obvious conclusion, which is that he knows he hasn't won and his only real chance is to bully her out of the race before the voters have had their say and before the super delegates indicate which one they think will have the best chance of winning in November, it's clear that he's doing his best to shut the contest down, and anoint himself the 'winner,' so that he can claim to the super delegates that she'll never win the African American vote if she's seen as someone who has denied him his rightful destiny.   (Divide much lately?)  

But he has another plan as well, to keep Hillary from campaigning. His supporters are warning her (is it a threat, no, it's a warning?) to keep quiet on the campaign trail or risk being branded as the castrating woman who cost Barack his manly image.  I don't think there is much chance of that, he may be seen as elitist and effete, but he sure can be tough on girls and old people, as long as it's not face to face, and if that isn't manly I don't know manly. I'm very tired of this media bashing and Obama supporter bashing of Hillary, since I admire her and more than half registered Democrats also admire her. It now seems that he may 'give' us some token woman (we're all replaceable, right?) to appease us. Perhaps Nancy Pelosi, who comes from a politically connected family, will be 'chosen' for us by him, to appease us?  

I say to Hillary, keep on talking.  Keep campaigning, for us.  It's not over when the media tell us it is, it's not over when Barack crowns himself in his first (of many?) mission accomplished moments, it's over when all the votes are cast, when the super's have endorsed, and when one or the other gives up.  If neither gives up, it won't be over until the convention.  Democracy doesn't have a 'keep out the girls' sign on the door and voters get to chose their own girl, we don't need 'a man' to chose a girl for us, thank you, but no thanks.  



Display:


Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 11)

Stay and campaign, but stop tearing down the likely Democratic nominee.  That's the message.  That's what the remaining SD's are saying.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:29:52 PM EST

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.63 / 11)

that's 'man speak' for castrating?  How weak he must feel to fear what she might say.  he's tearing her down all the time, who's going to tell him to shut up. Well, no one, not even her, she knows it isn't personal, he's trying to win the good old fashioned way, by making his opponent look weird and old.  She's making him look weak only in comparison to her own performance. But it's not about him, her strengths aren't there to castrate him, they're there because she's strong and capable and, well, rather wonderful.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:36:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 5)

She isn't going to win. Sorry.  

I am really distressed that you continue spouting republican talking points, where all Democratic men are wimps and all Democratic women are ball busters.  KNOCK IT OFF



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:43:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 6)

I never knew the pugs were feminist. You could never tell by looking at them.  Actually, I think you're wrong.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:49:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 3)

I never knew feminism was grounded in characterizing men as wimps and women as ball busters.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:55:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 4)

Only men and the women who defend them consider some women ball busters, I don't.  But that's what the shut up Hilary pundits are really saying, they use the word diminish, get it?  feminism is grounded in equality, that's legal equality and employment equality, and equality in medicine and justice. Feminism led to Title !X (did I get that right) which is why we have women's athletics in schools.  Women are now allowed into all graduate schools and most college kids are women these days but that was not always the case. Where women are severely underrepresented is in positions of power, in industry and in politics.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:07:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 4)

And yet they have the right to run for public office, and have anti-discrimination laws in place to help fight against blatant workplace discrimination. Especially in the public office aspect, you have to realize that electing a woman simply because she is a woman is antithesis to the equality movement. Woman can be, and have been, extremely poor choices for a political candidate. They can also be fantastic ones. The point is that women have the right to run and be elected based not on their gender but on their abilities and qualities as an individual.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:13:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

you may think it's simply because she's a woman, why I don't know, have you been listening to the debates, do you know how qualified she is, how much preparation she put in before she threw her hat in the ring, but I see her as the most qualified and best candidate of either sex in my lifetime, and I'm in my sixties.  I see Barack running an old fashioned contest, beat up the adversary and it hasn't worked. And she may still win, isn't that great? A girl stood up to bullies and didn't blink, didn't complain, just got on with the work of campaigning.  Go Hillary!!


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 4)

If its not because of her gender, then why have you spent this entire diary screaming about gender discrimination?

I have to say I'm a little shocked that someone in their sixties is still resorting to mockery instead of rational arguments. It does clarify your militant anti-male stance however.

I understand you've been through situations that many women younger than you haven't in terms of gender equality. What you fail to realize is that due to the contributions of your generation, the situation is vastly different for those that came after you. This antagonistic stance does more to harm than help the new wave of feminists, who work with extremely enlightened men of all stripes, and genuinely see equality in their every day interactions in work and home.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:20:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.25 / 4)

you are such a know-it-all. I thought I was the biggest know-it-all but I've met my match.  I bow down to you.

There isn't anything mutually exclusive about supporting a candidate I admire and noticing that she's been told to shut up or she'll castrate some fellow.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:25:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

This kind of behavior is a little unseemly for someone with your life experience. And who, exactly, told her to "shut up" before she "castrates" someone?

I understand you have a lot invested in this personally and emotionally, I really do. I've had this same discussion with my own mother, who happens to be your age. And she also agrees that the environment surrounding gender equality is vastly different than it was 30 years ago when I was born.

There's no shame in understanding that progress has been made. There is a problem with refusing to see that progress and continuing to fight a battle that has long passed with tactics that were borderline unacceptable even at the start.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

the oft repeated talking point is that she can stay in the race as long as she doesn't 'diminish' Barack.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

Yeah because we have to win in November and we can't do that if the party is divided.  Thus she has to think about the long term health of the party.  As for Clinton being the most qualified candidate in your lifetime...  Wow, just wow.  Kerry, Gore?  She barely has any legislative experience.


by Philoguy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:05:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

UpState Girl I was kind of curious.

What is your experience in politics. Just wondering.

As a woman in politics.

Also are you familiar with Carol M. Braun?

Who is the highest ranking political figure that you admire? Female that is.

Finally you are aware that we have only as of the last national election, found ourselves with a female speaker of the house.

When did women get the vote?

Sorry but I'm old enough to remember the bra burnings and life when the wife stayed home. That's a long tough road that Sen. Clinton has traveled to get to this point. Before you lecture Anne Shane in such a condesending manner.

Think.
Please.
Alot of those "older women" are reading this now. Lots of hard work to get you to were you can say so easily that things are different.

Really. :(


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:24:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

Third generation liberal woman, third generation Democrat, daughter of a medical professional and granddaughter of one of the first women to graduate from Cornell University. I'm not sure what the rest of your questions have to do with my assertion that Anna is way off base with her militant hateful attitude and antagonistic demeanor and how its a poor reflection on the feminist movement.

I have no doubt that women of previous generations fought hard and well for the opportunities my generation of women hold today. But this attitude that because a hard line militant approach worked 20, 30 or 40 years ago it's appropriate today is just incorrect. Its the myopia of seeing things as they were, not as they are.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:32:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

So you don't know who Carol M Braun is? I assume that's the reason why you didn't answer.

You don't have a favorite female politian on the national level? Why? I maybe some old fart but I do have women in politics that I admire and those I don't.

How about Johnnie Carr? She died this year. Very active politically up until right before she died.

Do you know who she is?

This is very important to your credibility as spokes person for feminism here.

So what do you know about these women.

Before I listen to you, I'd like to know if you can answer these questions.

You see my mom. She always told me to make sure before I made a final opinion about someone that I should get an idea of who they are and where they are coming from.

Don't worry. I'll ask Anna Shane the same questions.

But they are important to me to get a handle on your feminist background.

Thank you for taking the time and answering quickly.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:47:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

um (none / 0)

what does carole mosely braun have to do with upstategirl's feminist creds?

not much i'd imagine.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:05:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: um (none / 0)

I should think that a feminist would know Sen. Braun who was a contender in the 2004 presidential race. So should you. Do you know the woman? Who she is? HER accomplishments in politics?

I'm not trying to lecture here.

But wouldn't you be aware of a female who is running for the office of president?

If you are  going to lecture others about what feminism is or isn't?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sun May 11, 2008 at 07:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: um (none / 0)

Annatopia said:

"what does carole mosely braun have to do with upstategirl's feminist creds?

not much i'd imagine."

12 dogs and a blog replied:

I guess it would depend on  how you define feminism.

How do you define feminism? Surely you must know the definition before you can put the word to use?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:52:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: um (none / 0)

you're sooo smart, and likable.  


by anna shane on Sun May 18, 2008 at 01:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: um (none / 0)

"you're sooo smart, and likable."-Anna Shane

Bless your heart, Anna Shane, thank you so very much for the compliment. :D

Anna Shane. What is your opinion of the passive agressive anger that's been used on the internet?  With regards to this election? Would you ever use snark to express your displeasure at another poster? :D


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sun May 18, 2008 at 11:21:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

"I have to say I'm a little shocked that someone in their sixties is still resorting to mockery instead of rational arguments."

Upstate girl. I'm no expert on the internet but well my limited experience has mockery about the number one type of argument on the internet.

I usually piss folks off because I tend to intentionally ignore it.

Sigh. Never could get with the program and be suitably chastised. I think it's because I'm just older than dirt and I don't have to put up with it.

LOL

Don't mock. On the internet? Hey I'm all for rational argument. Keep waiting to see substance over style from some candidates since this primary started.

Woo Hoo!


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:37:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 0)

Anna, great diary. Sorry that it gets OT so fast. I'm with Inky on the Hamas thing.

Nice of the Obama Camp to "grant" their generous permission.

/snark


by OtherLisa on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

I don't see GOP talking points.  I see an outstanding analysis by a good Democrat who supports Hillary.  All you "come to Obama" worshipers  want is praise, halelujah and another "amen" and if anyone dares critiques HIM, you go ballistic.  "Knock it off", indeed.  


by Tolstoy on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 7)

How pathetic.  You twist everything that everyone says to make it an attack or a put-down.  It's projection on your part.

Nobody is telling Hillary to quit or shut up from the Obama campaign; just telling her to accept her role as LOSER of this contest, and stop trying to tear Obama down.


by Lawyerish on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:45:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 4)

now I understand, she's supposed to accept that she's a loser. That's way different, not. But what if there isn't yet a winner, does that still make her the loser?  I mean, there are more states with more voters, and last I look the super's hadn't en masse rushed to Barack, since she's the loser what's keeping them?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 6)

The fact that there are people like you who will use their support of Obama against them.  Like all politicians, they are looking for the easiest path out of their bind, and the animosity displayed by your bunch isn't helping.

Yes, she's supposed to accept that she lost this candidate in this election.  That's what happens when you realize that you cannot catch up and win.  Nobody's asking her to quit the game early, but cheap shots and fouls shouldn't take place - it's poor sportsmanship.


by Lawyerish on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:26:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.33 / 6)

you tell her lawerish, how dare she not accept your authority. The shameless hussy?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:31:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.80 / 5)

You're really getting rather ridiculous.  Republican troll-like ridiculous.

It is not my authority, but the cold and sharp authority of Mathematics which has doomed Hillary's chances.


by Lawyerish on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 2)

of course, you're the voice of reason, and I'm simply ridiculous.  So, why haven't the super's all attended to your rationality? Could it be there is more than one way to look at it, more than one set of numbers, more to it than what you see?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 2)

All the supers are not going to support one candidate. But increasingly they're endorsing Obama, with around 10 who have switched from Clinton to Obama.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:53:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

then what's the hurry ,why does she have to do her duty now?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:26:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 2)

They are not a monolithic bloc; their own opinions and deals they have cut are as important as the popular vote totals to many.

But it's farcical to believe that by hacking away at Obama, using racial politics, you can change the minds of hundreds of them.  It is not going to happen.  Anyone who has paid attention to politics knows it isn't going to happen.  That's why the media declared the race over; they're not stupid.


by Lawyerish on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 2)

okay, the charge comes out, it's said, she said hard working white guys are voting for her meaning not hard working black guys. She isn't going to get the black vote, it won't happen while there is a viable black candidate. And why should black Americans not get to vote for a black candidate?  It does not make him the most qualified, it does not make that choice based on a clear eyed view of their policies and plans and solutions, but why shouldn't black Americans get to overlook their candidate's shortcoming because it would be great to have a president of color. But how's she going to talk about poorer hard working Americans voting for her when clearly a large group of poorer hard working Americans aren't?  How's she to make a case for her electibailty?  Were it not for Barack being in the contest, most all poorer hard working Americans would be for her.  And she's winning a group of fellows that normally vote for the pug, cause she's tough and she debates well and her solutions look good.  She can't speak about that?  That diminishes Barack?   That's what the NYT said.  Give it a try, tell me how she can phrase that in a way that Barack's team can't spin into fake offense.


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

I don't think it's accurate to say that she's winning the group that votes Republican.  There are plenty of working-class voters who vote Dem, and plenty of them who are not voting in the Dem election this cycle.

She's winning the part of the working-class white group who vote Dem, yes.  There are many reasons for this and only some are related to the issues she champions.  

When you say 'hard-working people are voting mostly for me' you imply that everyone else isn't hard-working.  I'm not poor, and I doubt my job in front of a computer would count as 'working class'; but I bust my ass every day (and here on Saturday) to do a good job.  I work hard.  Is she saying I don't work hard?  My metric is not voting for her.

See, it's just a sloppy f'in comment on her part.  It's like Barack's 'bitter' comment.  We all know what he meant, but he said it in a dumb way.  Same thing here, and she's already apologized for saying it.  So why defend it?


by Lawyerish on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:51:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 0)

the reference wasn't to slacker white guys, it was because she doesn't have hard working black people, she knows that.  it's reported that those voters didn't vote for Bill, and did vote for George. The sort of democrats who haven't voted for a dem president, but do the down-tickets dems. Like a Democratic state that takes a Republican governor, or like NYC, totally dem but they vote for a pug mayor. It's amazing she's won this group of men.  Her phrasing was sloppy, but isn't that what you brought up? i was answering you, but perhaps I misunderstood?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

There's no evidence that what you posit is true; that those who are voting for Hillary didn't vote for Bill, or voted for Bush last time.  In fact, the Dem party usually carries around the same amount of white, lower-income voters as we are seeing this cycle.

It's hardly amazing that she's won the lower-income and lower-information group, for one reason only: name recognition.  Many voters pay absolutely zero attention to the process.  Those who don't are by far more likely to vote for the name they recognize.  She had an advantage to start with based on this alone.


by Lawyerish on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 0)

it's all over the news, the Barack counter claim is that Bill won without them so he doesn't need them either. Problem is that Bill won with the help of a third party spoiler, Perot.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:12:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

She wasn't saying you don't work hard, but I have to say that, as a person that has done both kinds of jobs, white collar jobs like ones at the computer are not nearly as difficult to do as the ones where you do physical work. I can't do those kinds of jobs any more, so am forced to work at the computer these days.

It's so much easier that many times I am astonished at the pay I get, while not breaking a sweat or hurting physically every day when I quit. It can be hard, but there really is no comparison.

That is one of the reasons that those that do the blue collar jobs don't live as long. They are expected to work through sickness, pain and without much health care. It's a whole different ball game compared to the white collar jobs.


by splashy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 01:56:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

Anna,

Just curious to you too.

Have you see the little maps on the top most side of the myDD main page?

It's an electorial college prediction map.

It's continuously updated.

We've started watching it/

According to those little maps. In an electorial college matchup.

Sen.Obama v Sen. McCain?

Sen. McCain wins.

Sen. Clinton v. Sen. McCain?

Sen. Clinton wins.

Considering that the electorial college determines who's president. This is important information.

I asked about it earlier.

Supposed to be pretty acurate.

Just wondering if you'd seen it?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:34:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 4)

You know if she was a male candidate they would be saying the exact same thing. So if they would say it to a male candidate and a female candidate why is anything but equal treatment.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:37:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 2)

ummmm Hart, Brown, Jackson and Kennedy to name a few recent men that had no mobbing calls to withdrawal or else be blamed for destryong the party. They were free to take things all the way to the convention floor.


by swissffun on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, they did. (2.00 / 4)

People were screaming at Kennedy not to continue to the convention.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes, they did. (2.00 / 0)

he didn't listen either? Neither stopped campaigning?  That means hillary is the new JFK?  (she's way better)  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:13:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's talking about Teddy Kennedy (2.00 / 2)

And can't you please just make a distinction between campaigning and campaigning negatively?


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:16:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

No you are wrong. This has never been said to any other candidate by the media folks, ever!

Read about it here:
http://mediamatters.org/columns/20080430 0001

It's pretty pitiful, and shows their misogyny. That kind of arrogance is only shown to women that dare to push the envelope.


by splashy on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:00:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

Why is she listening??  She could say the hell with it, I'm going to keep bashing Obama and let the votes fall where the may.  She isn't though, probably because she cares about the party and ultimately getting a Dem into the White House.  


Obama supporter who is damn glad Hillary Clinton is a Democrat!!
by hootie4170 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.50 / 2)

she's never bashed him.  It's not her thang, some think however that campaigning on her own positives is a bash at his lesser qualifications, for some she can't do anything right, go figure.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:57:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 3)

"Celestial Choirs"
"Change you can Xerox"
"Shame on you, Barack Obama!"
"I can win hard-working voters, white voters, but Obama can't."
"I've met the C-in-C threshold, and so has John McCain, but not Barack Obama."

Nope, she's never bashed Obama.


by Texas Gray Wolf on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:21:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

can't be trusted, do anything to win, her talons out, experience is as Clinton's wife, she's likable enough, most divisive figure, highest negatives, liar, in bed with special interests, it's all fair enough when it cuts both ways. They're each trying to win. I think he's said worse, but that's my opinion.  Only thing just said badly, of those you listed, was the hard working one, she's the only one so far who has received votes from working class white guys who are registered democrats but always vote for a pug president.  That's totally cool, but she said it badly and apologized.  I thought the others were funny.  None of it made me like him less.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

Half of those quotes are made up or highly exaggerated, or taken out of context, or were said about Bill Clinton.

With this diary, you have lost all of my respect.  I actually thought we were on the same side - that this race was finally a chance to break a barrier for...  somebody.  But following Gloria Steinem's lead, you continue to pit the interests of black people against those of white women, instead of seeing a common cause.  So when Hillary Clinton uses racially charged language that is going to help no one, you're not allowed to call her out or you're only afraid of women.  Hillary Clinton is allowed to reach deep into Nixon's playbook, repeatedly, and it will either be explained or laughed away.  

Shame on you.  


by Mostly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

Uhm concidering what was said about her husband and his administration by folks like Rush Limbaugh?

Saying-

"Celestial Choirs"
"Change you can Xerox"
"Shame on you, Barack Obama!"
"I can win hard-working voters, white voters, but Obama can't."
"I've met the C-in-C threshold, and so has John McCain, but not Barack Obama."

Is nothing.

In the general election oh my no.

This worries me about Sen. Obama being in the general election. If this is what Team Obama thinks is terrible words. I'm not sure he'll be able to handle the likes of Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity. Those folks are tough.

And relentless.

Sen. Clinton has faced worse on a good day during her husbands administration. Not to mention what was said during the impeachment process. It wasn't just having to deal with the impeachment but also to have you husbands infidelities on the news 24/7. World wide. And yet she not only survived that and  protected her daughter,she also went on to become a Senator of New York.
Trust me all the time folks were bashing away.

That's a tough cookie.

Texas Gray Wolf,
She'd have been lucky to just have heard the things that you are saying are so terrible.

Seriously.

Oh and I'd like to add that there has been bashing. I know I've seen it here. Because of all things a fund raiser.

I couldn't for the life of me figure out why folks were so angry. There wasn't a bad thing said about Sen. Obama. Now I know it's fund raising and saying she should quit already.

Good to know.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:09:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

Hillary Clinton had to endure a lot of ridicule and was continually bashed (Ken starr was a travesty)- but all those attacks were due to things she said and did (along with Bill).  She has played the victim forever and its getting pretty tedious, especially since she brings it to the campaign.  At this very moment there is a trial going on in Los Angeles (clinton vs paul)- NOTHING has been mentioned about that.  Obama has NEVER mentioned whitewater, monica, travelgate, failed health insurance, all the shady campaign contributions and associations....
Obama has been attacked for his associations - for the past few weeks continually and he is still standing.  He stayed with his pastor for 20 years, she stayed with Bill for longer - they're even on that.
who cares what the republicans bash him with in the fall - maybe, just maybe, he can take it, no?  

by mariannie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:54:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

"...who cares what the republicans bash him with in the fall - maybe, just maybe, he can take it, no?"  Marianne

From 12 dogs

Nope. Not if he can't take the "choirs of angels" comment. Nope he can't.

You asked my opinion.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Mon May 12, 2008 at 02:55:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

My point was in response to a previous comment that claimed that Clinton had never bashed Obama. Obviously that's not true. There's been campaigning back and forth on both sides. No less an authority than Bill Clinton has opined that the remarks made against either side have been minor at most.

No one's saying those are terrible words. A couple of those statements -- the C-in-C threshold one in particular -- are pretty regrettable, but they're not terrible. Nor is anything said by the Obama campaign against Clinton.

We all know things will be worse in the GE. Obama's proven himself far more than capable of responding.

And I'm not sure where you're going about your "because of all things a fund raiser". I can think of one person, who was a Clinton fund raiser, who said some truly despicable things about Obama, but I can also think of some other events that have been connected with fund raising. So, it's a little too hard to tell where you're going with that.

My point was: there's been bashing on both sides. As far as the campaigns and surrogates go, for the most part it's been pretty minor stuff, both ways (and yes there are examples on both sides of things that aren't so minor). Neither side is pure and neither side is overly evil. Claiming that Clinton has never bashed Obama is as silly as saying that Obama has never bashed Clinton.


by Texas Gray Wolf on Sun May 11, 2008 at 12:52:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Anna - (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton is not, in any way shape or form, acting or being treated any differently than she would be if she were male.

How can you not see that?

Sexism is very real and very bad and it's a long way from being conquered, but in Hillary's case, she has conquered it. She has transcended the gender barrier. That's something to celebrate. It doesn't mean that other future female candidates will be treated (and mistreated) with the same gender neutrality as Hillary is, but in her case, sexism is simply not germaine to the discussion.

It's time to "move on" from that issue in Hillary's case.


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anna - (2.00 / 1)

gosh, I must be nuts?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:17:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anna - (none / 0)

Can you cite an example of an attack on Hillary that's based on her gender?


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:38:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anna - (2.00 / 1)

Are you new to this concept?  Even the pundits admit it.  I've been writing about his strategy since he first trashed her experience by joking about her experience being married to Bill. Since then she's grown talons, has become a monster, and one of his recent endorsers likened her to Glenn Close in some slasher flick.  Google it, you'll find many examples in many published articles. It's one reason women have flocked to her, like 60% of women vote for her, even pug women vote for her.  We see it, we don't like it. but he's won from it too.  I don't like it, but he can do what he likes, she's not quitting and she's not shutting up.  


by anna shane on Sun May 11, 2008 at 02:20:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anna - (none / 0)

WAIT! Let's take Glenn Close.

When I made the same joke I used Rasputin. The point of the joke is to make fun of Hillary for not dropping out when, at multiple points in time, the conventional wisdom has been that she can't win.

I used Rasputin but Glenn Close is funnier because she looks more like Hillary.

The crucial key to separating real sexism from unfairly attributed bogus sexism is the underlying message. The message is that Hillary keeps coming and coming even though she should be vanquished. This is equally true of Rasputin and the Fatal Attraction woman, as well as thousands of other horror movie characters - whether they be male, female, animal or space alien.

I you want to make fun of Hillary (making fun of political candidates is "fair game", right?) you're going to choose a blonde female for your joke.

Conversely, is the infamous (but hilarious, no pun intended) "flocking to that dandy Obama like he's the second coming of Jimi Hendrix" line. Is that a racist joke?

NO - IT'S NOT RACIST. They could have said "second coming of Jesus Christ" or whatever, but it's funnier to use Hendrix because they're both black. Now "dandy" might be a legitmate gay slur, but at least we don't have to worry about that ... this election cycle! Wait til we get our first gay candidate if you want to see some fur fly. Sexism and racism are battles that are essentially already won. We just have to wait for a couple more generations to die off. "Homosexualism" has a ways to go.

But long after racism and sexism have been completely removed from our culture, black people will still have black skin and women will still look like women. These differences, if no negative stigma is attached to them, are perfectly acceptable. We don't need to outlaw the recognition that there are differences between the sexes and races - we just need to outlaw making value judgments based on those differences.


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Sun May 11, 2008 at 06:37:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anna - (2.00 / 1)

not what you say, we're a lot of nobody's, who cares what any of us say, but a congressman who just endorsed him, in the usual way of basing his support for Barack on Hillary hate, made that comparison.  I don't know about you, but I thought it was sexist and I was offended. I really hate this stuff.  we had to come up with ways to mock Barack without in any way disrespecting his race, and I'd think it would be possible to mock Hillary without offending all of us (not speaking for all all of us, I mean those of us who really don't like it and who additionally always vote and who donate to the party and have been lifelong party members, and maybe like me, being older than HIllary?)  


by anna shane on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anna - (none / 0)

in the usual way of basing his support for Barack on Hillary hate,

What was the Hillary hate part?

Remember - in a truly sexism-free world, female politicians are going to be treated like their male counterparts - in other words, very rudely! The fact that Hillary is subject to the same harsh attacks as male politicians is an indication of how far she's transcended being defined by her gender.

There's no doubt that Hillary is attacked viciously, and often unfairly, but please let's isolate the sexist ones from the others to avoid unfairly inflaming women voters.

For example, Hillary is criticized for attacking Obama on such issues as guns and bowling. That's counter-gender, agreed? In the Odd Couple relationship of Hill & Barry, she's the one exhibiting traditionally male character flaws (rude, aggressive, macho) while he's accused of exhibiting traditionally female attributes (wants to "talk to" Iran, full of hope instead of rational problem solving, not tough enough, etc.)

Anna - the reason you're catching so much flack in this post is the irony of using sexism as an argument in the Obama/Hillary debate. They're turned the whole thing on its ear, so the sexism claims ring hollow.

I admit that a Hillary candidacy would be a huge positive for the war against sexism, but sexism has nothing to do with the success of her campaign to this point.

Let me put it another way. Hillary has received more support from female voters than she would have if she were male, but she hasn't lost any significant amount of support from male voters as a result of being female.


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Sun May 11, 2008 at 08:45:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey Anna (none / 0)

Have I got a thread for you!

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/11/1855 59/861

A truly legitimate target for you. Go!


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anna - (2.00 / 1)

Hmmmmm I read this and the first thing that came to mind?

The "b" word. Calling Sen. Clinton the "b" word.

Not exactly polite calling a US Senator the "b" word.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

If Michigan and Florida can "count" without either candidate campaigning there, why not these last states too?


by Adam B on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:48:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 2)

That's what the remaining SDs are saying? You have a direct, attributed quote for that? How's this -- if the SDs really wanted this thing to be over and really thought that Obama was the better nominee for the GE, there is nothing stopping them from ending it. They have the power to do so. Per Craig Crawford:

If Democratic superdelegates truly want Hillary Rodham Clinton to quit the nomination race, why don't they just publicly endorse Barack Obama and get it over with? There are more than enough of them to make up the difference needed to give him the winning majority.

- snip -

Ever since losing the Ohio Primary two months ago, the Obama campaign has been fanning the vapors that a victory-clinching mass of superdelegates are waiting in the wings to endorse him. Now would seem to be the time to prove it -- before Clinton wins lopsided majorities in upcoming states like West Virginia next week and again revs up her momentum.

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/200 8/05/superdelegates-can-end-this-no.html

The truth is that there are still a number of people who have serious doubts about Obama and his prospects in the GE -- his tanking numbers with white males isn't helping anything.

Obama's support among white male voters, the most tightly contested bloc over the primary season, has slipped. He did well early on in states such as Virginia, where he took 52% of the white male vote to Clinton's 47%. But this week, Obama lost, 58% to 42%, among white men in Indiana and 55% to 42% in North Carolina. He has won majorities of white male voters in 10 states since January, but Clinton bested him in 13 others, including the critical northern battlegrounds of Ohio and Pennsylvania.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la- na-race10-2008may10,0,5432711,full.story

Sorry, but this isn't over, not for the SDs and especially not for the voters. Wishing it won't make it so.


Bitch is the New Black
by Iphie on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:13:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, the focus should be on McCain (none / 0)

That is what people have been saying.  As we get closer to November, we need to stop the circular firing squad and start going after the Republican nominee, otherwise we are doing Karl Rove's job for him.


by protothad on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.71 / 7)

You have some serious issues with men. I suggest you seek counceling.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Bill Clinton
by venician on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:30:17 PM EST

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 5)

Do I?  I wonder where that comes from. Is it possible we've never had a female president, or that only a tiny percentage of high paid power jobs are held by women, or that women still earn a fraction of men's earnings, or that more violence is committed against women and by men then any other demographic, or that legislation that men like isn't what women think is most important, for example I want universal pre-school and education is my priority and health care for adults who are sometimes parents as well as children, because I'm a mom?  There are some very decent men, but they aren't telling the women to shut up.    


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 6)

Clinton won't fix the historical problems between the genders. And a liberal, progressive male candidate will always do more for women than a conservative, right-wing female (and yes, there are some out there). This notion that men=bad and women=good is absolutely ridiculous and frankly offensive.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:47:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

no one will, they're not fixable. But isn't it great that so many working Americans have accepted that a woman can be a boss. In that why they're far ahead of their "more educated betters."  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 11)

The huge logical problem with your statement is that you're assuming low-education voters voted for Clinton solely because she's a woman and they could see her in a "boss role", and people that voted for Obama voted that way solely because they couldn't accept a woman as President. That's beyond ridiculous.

Again, you're internalizing your own frustration and hate and projecting this singular factor of gender and making it the sole reason for everything. That's disturbing and it makes any other rational feminist look that much worse.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:57:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 0)

Yeah, I don't think they're racists if that's what you mean.  I think they are ahead of some of the more powerful Americans in that they can accept that a woman can be in charge. We've come a long way baby, but we have a ways to go.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 7)

You're still doing it.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:06:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

OMG I'm still doing it, even after I've been instructed?  Oh, the shamelessness of me?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:10:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 7)

If you want to bury your head in the sand and scream sexism over every imagined slight, that's fine. But don't pretend you're actually grasping what I'm saying.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:14:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.00 / 3)

how could I, a brilliant mind like yours that can see right through me,  Unthinkable.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:21:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 4)

Your antagonism is showing. Its hard to fight for equality when you're randomly swinging against anything or anyone that doesn't fit your narrow mindset. Tell me how that kind of statement presents a positive, intelligent, rational image of feminism?


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.00 / 2)

I'm antagonist now? How bad of me, I mean, how dare I mock you, the very true all real voice for women (hey, we each get to speak)


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 5)

Keep proving my point, please.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.00 / 1)

You're point? That I'm hurting women? Is that it?  I'm just making fun of you, upstate girl, you're funny.  My point is we're all allowed to talk and we don't need anyone's permission. But, go ahead, I won't mock you again, you can have the 'last word' now, go for it, make it memorable.  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:40:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 8)

I don't really have anything to add, I've said it already and your repeated hysteria and antagonism only serves to prove my point. Your attitude sucks and its horribly detrimental to the feminist movement. Compound that with the fact you can't even back up your opinions with fact and have to resort to mockery presents you as a prototypical "angry irrational female" that misogynists have been trying to paint our gender with for years. But, if you'd rather be a stereotype, no one's going to be able to talk you out of it. You'd apparently much rather revel in your own anger than calm down and think rationally about an issue.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

Obama and his brilliant, powerful, and articulate partner Michelle will be extremely effective in their advocacy of the feminist movement. I don't see how anyone could doubt that.

McCain uses the c-word in reference to his own wife and chuckled at the "how do we beat the bitch" comment from a supporter.

Is there a choice?

(and there won't be "choice" much longer after McCain is elected)


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:26:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

Anna Shane

Stop baiting this "baby girl" right this minute.

Upstate.

You're getting played. I'm reading this and mercy love. This girl is so getting played. It's okay. We all get played. I have. I'll bet Anna Shane has. But reading over your shoulders? LOL

Stop Anna Shane, whoever you are or is it whomever, it's just not nice.

LOL

Upstate, When I was little and stupid. We had this cat that was a fantastic mouser. One day out in the shed, we heard a commotion. Went out to find the cat looking in a old basket. One of those kind you see at produce stands. Anyway. That cat was looking intently in that basket. So we go look over in that basket. There was this field mouse tryin' to get out. Anyway the cat had been swatting at it with its paws. Playing with it. Then whosh. Cat ate it.

Been my experience that cats about always play with their food before they eat it.

I'm older now. Sometimes I'm thinkin' that cats and folks on the internet have alot in common. LOL

I don't know either of you but come on Anna Shane be nice.

Upstate seems to be  very passionate about feminism. Seriously. LOL

Mercy.

LOL


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:32:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

Either you just outed Anna as a troll, or you really have a poor concept of feminism.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:43:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

Have you answered my question about who Johnnie Carr and Carol M Braun is yet?

LOL.

By the by. Could you define feminism in a sentence? Or maybe two?

:D


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:49:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

Civil rights advocate and Illinois State Representative, respectively. Do you have a point? Or having fun ignoring my comments in favor of pop quizzes, for some reason?

Feminism isn't this bullshit "men are evil, support women no matter what" nonsense, that's for sure.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:54:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

Upstate girl you wrote:

"Civil rights advocate and Illinois State Representative, respectively. Do you have a point? Or having fun ignoring my comments in favor of pop quizzes, for some reason?

Feminism isn't this bullshit "men are evil, support women no matter what" nonsense, that's for sure."

My response:

That's all you know about these two women. You are a feminist correct? That's all you know?

Ms. Johnnie Carr,

She was a contemporary of Rev. King when folks called grown men boy and told women they had to stand if favor of men. A true feminist. She fought for equality for us all. She continued to work for the civil rights movement almost up until she died in her mid nineties.
"look back but move forward" I think I got that quote of her's right. I'm going on memory here.
And all you got was a "wiki quicky" that she was a civil rights activist. She was a female in the thick of things Upstate. As a feminist I thought you would like to know abit about Ms Carr.

And also know about Ms. Braun.

Ms. Braun was one of the 11 folks up for Democratic nominee in 2004's Presidential race. One of only 2 African American's AND the only female in the running. This was before Sen. Clinton. I had go looking for information about Ms. Braun because I wasn't going to be finding it on the news. Or from feminists or the Democratic Party. I thought that was ironic especially since she wasn't covered by feminist reporters. But you haven't looked very close. In addition to Ms. Braun being a US Senator from Sen. Obama's homestate of Illinois, she also has a first attached to her bio. If you had actually taken the time to read you would know this.

What did Carol M. Braun do that was historically important? I'll bet you can't tell me. Not right off top of your head or without another trip to wikipedia.

She is an  female and this was a big deal. I should think as a feminist you would want to know this.

Feminism is about equality. The feminist and the civil rights activist both fight for equal treatment under the law.

You go find out what it is Carol M. Braun was first at. Oh and  a quick question. You do know the difference between the Senate and the House of Representatives.

I have to ask. Ms Braun wasn't a Representative in the House of Representatives. She was a Senator in the US Senate. But you got the state correct. She is from the same state as Sen. Obama.

Now I hope you have a good day. Glad I saw this comment before I left. I didn't want to think I was being rude and ignoring your comments. It's just there are SO many of them to read.

Good night and happy reading.
Happy Mother's Day to your mother.

Don't forget to tell her that you now know more about history and famous African American feminists than you did the last time you talked to her.

Then get some sleep these boards are no place to spend all night.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sun May 11, 2008 at 02:56:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (1.66 / 3)

Traditionally, conservative voters have never had a problem with a woman in power, as long as that woman belonged to a dynasty of rulers.

-- see Elizabeth I of England
-- see Catherine the Great

If you really want progress you ought choose a woman that made her own way to power -- a woman like Thatcher or Merkel or Tymoshenko.


by Aris Katsaris on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:57:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

Thatcher was conservative, no?


by mefck on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:19:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

Are you calling Hillary a "conservation right-wing female?"


If Hillary walked on water, she would be criticized for not swimming and if Obama swam, he would be lauded for being able to do what Hillary could not do.
by portia9 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

yes, that what she called her, and it seems that I'm harming women's futures, according to her. Wild?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 5)

No, actually I didn't. You guys really aren't that good with reading comprehension.

I said there are many women who are right-wing, conservative, etc. that would not make a good choice for a progressive Democratic elected position. This concept that a woman needs to be in elected position simply because she's a woman ignores her own intelligence, personality, and beliefs - in fact, it marginalizes them according to their gender, which is what I thought the equality movement was all about eradicating.

But hey, if you just want to see any woman in power regardless of her politics or her intelligence, then knock yourself out.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 3)

like some sanctimony with your righteousness? No, got enough?  


by anna shane on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 7)

The irony of your statement is astounding. Please, don't do the feminist movement any favors by touting yourself as an example.


by upstate girl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 05:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (2.00 / 1)

"And a liberal, progressive male candidate will always do more for women than a conservative, right-wing female"

Uhmm-mmm-mmm.  Well. This could explain why you couldn't tell me who Carol M. Braun is.

You were looking at "conservative right-wing" females.

I didn't know that Sen. Clinton has become a Conservative Republican. Fancy that. When did that happen? I knew she was a female but heck I thought she was a Democrat.

Mercy the things you learn.

My, my, my.

Now about who Braun and Carr are?

Do you know yet?

If you've been active politically for the last 6 years or come from a 3rd generation democratic family you should know who she is.

Here's a hint. Think presidential.

And ground breaking.

And firsts.

Yep.

And don't forget Ms. Carr. Her folks didn't graduate from Cornell and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have been thrilled that you were rude to Anna Shane but she sure did put a mark on the world.

Keep looking. You can surprise your second generation Democratic mom with the knowledge tomorrow for Mother's Day.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stay if You Must, but Don't Campaign? (none / 0)

I didn't realize I had to take a test. Here's Carol Braun's wikipedia link, if you're so inclined. And again, for the reading-impaired, I never called Clinton a right-wing candidate. She's not. But there are right-wing women who do not support reproductive rights, are pro-war, and otherwise hold non-progressive, non-female-friendly political viewpoints. And any progressive male candidate would be a better choice than those women for political office. Are you disagreeing with that statement?

I still fail to see exactly what point you're trying to make. You're certainly not contradicting mine - you'd actually have to address it in order to do so.